Today we have gathered the four blowhards together because the topic is serious, these days, would it be possible to separate the work from the artist? I bet we all live this dilemma, whether in music, the seventh art or literature, it is never easy to love the work of an asshole, but should we feel guilty? To stop listening, to read, or to listen? Is the work greater than the author? There are so many questions that we decided to make it even worse and debate such a delicate subject with the subtlety of a rhinoceros. Listen and let us know your opinion, can you separate the work from the artist?
Automatic transcription of the episode
00:03 Welcome to the metal jukebox, my dears. And today is a day of polemic polemic. We are super pop there that the business is going to get crazy is who, my dear, that today we are going to talk about what is important to highlight the artist's work or the artist runs away with the work and everything man, let's know about more. Now come with us. What an entrance from the outside, the best thing for me, wonderful, man, everything is so much better.
00:35 And a lot of fucking. That's it, guys, it's not easy, no, man. You go there. It's years to build and seconds to destroy, right? My darlings, it's never easy being a public personality with great powers. Great responsibilities come with it, I would say. The banana show is not easy, you are there, you are, you are in the world, you have to have responsibility, be aware my brother, because if you don't, man, you are going to be fucking up a job that was done with sweat, but that's what we are going to talk about here, we are
01:05 with our 3 warriors, a very fucked up episode, because we have 4 people are here, it doesn't happen today, my dear, so. Pondal, hail special here I will start with Andreza. Andrezão is that you are, my dear, talk, guys, we are here firm and strong. Not talking about metal jackbox document, right? Today a special episode. Exactly, man, and Camila, how's it going? What's up, my milk pudding? Soft convict? All smooth, isn't it? And let's talk to the greatest Pedro
01:35 of Lara in this Brazil? Come on, Daniel, hello, let's talk a lot of controversy today. Let's see who's going to get kicked out of this podcast. As of the end of it, I don't expect anyone to be kicked out. May God protect us. Amen, right? So, let's go, shall we? Let's start here so that, who knows, controversy is nothing, and we like to throw shit in the fan, right? So, I'm going to start here with my dear André. You were so much in the middle of studying like this, right? I saw
02:05 Everyone was down, no one made eye contact, it was I'm going to call it a face, I don't think. We've been wanting to do this episode for some time now and I think that every year it gets clearer, right? It gets more in evidence. Yes, I think that in my opinion, before anything else there is no right or wrong, not yet those that each one has their own, their own point, how far they get, so this is a subject that only from what you think of point, isn't it? There is not. The right thing is, fuck everybody and I'm not coming anymore
02:35 or right is, we're not going to have for each one and then a limit, right? I think everything, everything works with limits too. Me. I thought of a point, man. The first point is, I think it is much more difficult when you already know a work. I'll take an example of course, and I'll start our debates here. One of my favorite bands in life, and I grew up listening to it, is the Beatles, right? Hikaru Beatles changed my life, right? And after a while,
03:05 Today, with the internet, especially, we have access to everything, right? And then I found out that John Lennon was not such a nice guy. Yeah, I wasn't a nice guy with the people around him. With his family, with his family, with his wife, for the son who had beaten his wife, right? Yeah, so what, man? I don't know if it's fair for me to be punished for the stupid attitudes he had, you know? Because, like, I fucking love the music he created, right? And I can't give it up because the guy is a
03:35 I think it's fundamental in some cases, you know? And in most cases I try to separate it a little bit. It depends on how far you go, it is also promotion, man, I can't even promote a band or an artist, a writer, we will discuss this further, right? But I wanted to start with this case. Which is of utmost importance to me, because the Beatles have an overwhelming effect
04:06 so In my life. EE I disagree with pretty much everything that John Lennon did in his personal life. But to me, that may sound a little selfish, but to me that doesn't. It doesn't affect me as much as their songs affect me, you know? I don't know if I was too clear, it was, it was clear, it was clear, yes, I understand your point and I even think it is important, first of all to talk about these bands and then we also do that business, right? Who thinks that we have to separate the same work? Or when the guy goes there and fucks everything up, then it stops, it's over,
04:36 it is gone, we will put it in oblivion, we will cancel the band, that is a path that I don't agree, I don't believe and I am already leaving mine here. So my contribution, because, man, it is very unfair to think that a work built with the Ori blood, sometimes with a lot of dedication done, sometimes by more than one person, right? By 4 or 5, you see this being put down the drain. This is totally destroyed because of one jerk, sometimes a jerk. He will do all the work. I mean, in the Beatles we had John Lennon there,
05:06 but he is fucking with all the people. Ricardo is a dick, it's yesterday, you know? Beatles is a company, right? It is not an example, he doesn't get the same thing as me thinking my company, my company goes there, does shit, man, I just work there, me, Michel, no. I fucked up, man, if the top guys in my company fucked up, I can't be blamed as a son of a bitch. There is that question of responsibility, that is, the one who commits the crime pays, and then he is out, but the others, man, we are not going to be penalized for that. I think that we have to have a good sense, to know how to separate what belongs to each one of us and know how to do it.
05:37 did we already know about your crime, it's here, but now, works of art have their value to me, Hein people? And even if it was produced by one, by one, to be an entity. And then, what I will always say, right? The human being is flawed. Whoever believes in the human being is doomed to be fucked. It doesn't work. There is no way to believe in the human being, because he will produce mistakes. If we produce mistakes, imagine the others. So I don't deify anybody. You'll be happier in your life, man, I think nobody is an idol, because it starts there when the guy has an idol, then
06:07 fucked up, right brother? Idols is not, it's already bad, that's what I think, to start with, I tend to agree with you two, but I also think it's interesting that we. Of course, this depends a lot on the subjectivity of each person, isn't it? So, we are talking here about John Lennon, for example, I will bring only the King of Pop Michael Jackson, no matter what you have heard. If you, what you like about the guy, you certainly grew up listening to him.
06:37 Michael Jackson plays thriller, everybody dances and man, he was a pedophile. We know it, it's there, it's given, nobody proves it. This is one of the most polemic ones, because even today there is a lot of shit. That's why it's not good, it's bad, it's not a given, but like this. It's a weird conversation. Strong indications to Strong indications is suspicious, it is suspicious. And then, man? Then you think, I'm not going to consume his content anymore, but then you end up getting into his life story
07:07 of the guy is. We know that he was psychologically abused when he was a child and that justifies it, doesn't justify it. It's not the famous, it doesn't justify it, but it explains it can be accurate, it doesn't justify it anymore, it explains it. And you're left thinking, hey man, am I going to keep on consuming the content of a crazy person who may be a pedophile or am I going to stop and here comes the question of how big is the work and what impact does it have on your life? And then I really also see it as unfair that you stop consuming something that in your life was relevant because of the story
07:37 of that guy. But I also think there has to be a counterpoint, but will I? Disclose it, tell more people about his work, help him in some way, that's also where this doubt remains, right? Always like I'm going to consume this here, but indirectly it is helping the guy. Of course not Michael Jackson because he died, right? John Lennon the same thing, but we will also bring here cases of people who are very much alive and very well, thank you. And then you are left with that exact doubt and talking shit and
08:07 When you consume her art, you know who directly, you are helping her make a buck and maybe I continue to be an asshole, so that's also my question, especially to you, who is the only woman here. If a guy who beats a woman and I go there, I, Daniel. And from the money to him, you would find that, Money. I believe in arriving after he beats you in exchange for what? I'm not the guy who works for him, the guy has a cool job, but I, the guy just beat the shit out of Camila. And I go there and tell him, come on,
08:37 Then I saw it, but, hey, the guy at work, all the way around, right? But the job is good anyway, it's the owner. At 100 BRL it is. So, how do you feel about it? It's very exactly, that's it, like, and it's, to what extent do you really care or not really care about what happened, man, you put it on that level naked. Is it fair for someone to continue to consume the guy's content there while they're getting a black eye at At best, you know what I mean? So I think it generates. Reflex Ham de gera because it is
09:07 one, it's kind of a thankless thing, because usually when a company doesn't boycott the company, you can even manage to stay without the product now, when it's an art, that is, we will even talk about is, I won't just stay in the music, but if you are going to talk about literature, other things that are made, but calm down that are a lot, I think I will, I will lock you in the music first. Because I will complement what you are saying? There is another factor that I have just mentioned. I haven't given my point of view yet, I'm just asking here, I'm being Devil's Advocate, aren't I? But there is another factor that you mentioned, there is a band, it is a company
09:37 man, and the Rogers and the tour people and the marketing people and the people behind the studio and the guy who wrote the lyrics all this money is go fuck yourself, go fuck yourself. I am not saying that I am one of the people who has a different point of view about this that I will talk about later. But you have to take into consideration that if you want to stop, talk to the Beatles, let's go. The project that was André's example. And all the rest that were behind it, which were not only the band members. And that they will continue to make money with the work that
10:07 already. They've done that sometimes they didn't even know it. It's that the guy was an asshole, that's fundamental. It gave the fact that you knew the work before you found out the dirt on somebody. Man, I think it makes all the change that it's not one thing, it's like, Oh, I'm going to listen to a guy's band who is a racist over there, I don't think anybody here is going to, right intentionally, we're not going to see another one. Let's hear a guy who, gee, it seems like he's beaten up three girls and released a movie. Now he is a director
10:37 of one. I don't think anyone will have one. I'm connected that the guy is a Nazi, but I'm curious what he sounds like. It sounds like the movie is good old fashioned, so not the folks, most, I think 98% of the stuff we. You will debate here, you will discuss. These are things that we already knew. And then we came to know that the thing, the expensive work, the work is once the artist has put a work in the world, he no longer has control over it. He said that if he wins, there is no way, bro. If he doesn't, if he doesn't, from here
11:07 Soon it will be over, you won't hear anything else, so you don't listen, you don't see, you don't buy, but that's also very complicated, man. And also in this aspect, right? You mentioned the Beatles? I think it is a very viable example that recently came out of the metal scene. And from rock, there was the very famous Chris Brown controversy. That's right, Chris Brown, who got off on it, Fabiana, and then, like, what now? He is being accused again, isn't he? There he hit again, he pissed, I don't know what. That was the air he pissed.
11:38 It's a girl like, there's a Hill that these guys just do shit, it's one shit after another, no. He wasn't accused now of rape Chris Brown wasn't at the time I don't know but it's in 2 since you certainly just when it rolled out there was controversy that all the streaming apps would have to pull Chris Brown. And then a lot of people brought up this controversy that is expensive. If you're going to take down Chris Brown, you have to take down John Lennon as well. Because John Lennon hit, it is written in a book that he hit a woman, guys, you have to take 90%
12:08 of the musicians and then, obviously, none of the streaming applications Spotify, Deezer, YouTube, took off because, man? You can't use double standards, can you? You have to use the same thing. So we have to take Chris Brown out, we have to take everybody out, what goes around comes around, right? And it happened in Brazil. It happens all the time with these funk songs that I don't know about. The names too, like following me MC who knows who. And the same thing, you will take one, you will have to take half of the Brazilian funk. Yeah, and
12:38 is a business. At the end of the day, do you think the streaming companies will take away? Do you think? You're going to have to prove it, you're going to have to have a lawyer to say, no, no. This one is not claiming that here. It was proven that he crashed, this one was the allegation. How would you know? It is hard to explain. Convicted and this one is not my old man. Who do you act like? I'll give you an example of Polanski in bitch of a director Bro, because it's ours that was convicted and got away. The guy from that yeah, he leaked
13:08 that the 13-year-old girl herself in that year was convicted, paid. Paid money, didn't pay the inaccuracy, fled to Europe. He is here until today. Now, man, before I found this out, when I was there watching the movies, man, I find the films that I put out that everybody borders on perfection and on, how the fuck am I going to know about this now? Man, that's it, me. Me. Because it seems that sometimes we kind of feel guilty for consuming a work in this sense, you know? We can't have this penance, man, this guilt
13:38 are not our people. You can't carry that guilt. I don't know, me too. I also think that not holding my opinion to the end, because I see that I'm going, but it's good to use here, no, no, but to but it's good that there's a dissenting opinion, the dissent is good, it's by healthily, I'm I'm one of the people that like, I wasn't going to bring it already, but I'm going to bring it because it's an example to me stronger than the Pantera guy the rogue ONS Elmo. It's not even just the Pantera, okay? The Selmo wire to me is extremely talented, because they give Pantera OM nor, which is a project
14:08 I like it a lot, musically speaking. But then, damn it, there was this bullshit about him being in the basket, and then you stop. To analyze Pantera has always been a guy. It has always been me who was innocent, you who are innocent, who think you are not, the guys with the Flag of the fucking rednecks. There the confederate states use m bug was also well in the Cathedral, but there even of the Flag has many people who defend that the guy one that is a symbol of is a symbol of them, that is not a racist symbol itself, because it was not created with that
14:39 was not used with the Nazi flag around. It is the same thing, isn't it? No it's not, no, it's not the same thing, it's different, it's different, the conversation, I've had a conversation with American, there's a cultural issue there of recognizing the. The Confederate Flag, WHAT it doesn't take away is that a lot of racists have used none of the time. I've seen a guy who is black, a guy from the minority, who fucked up, who is not at the time of the civil war, uses, even because the south, he notably, the day wanted slavery. He creates that his is white pride. That Daniel
15:09 of white pride is wrong. You know what the thing is, man? The thing is that like, if you see a guy from somewhere else wearing this flag, maybe if some politician, me. I have no connection with the southern United States. Wearing an anti-federal flag. I think it looks bad if guys wear motorcycles, open the guys usually around here on motorcycles, but I don't, I'm not going to get into it, because again, if you wouldn't wear the Nazi Flag and not anywhere in the world, not something that's not obvious and not and not and not the confederates, why don't you tell me anything? That Flag more accurate, who was born in the South? But who was born in
15:39 South, guy Flag of the guys, Anne is the same. I hear, I hear their Flag there. What was it? They need to wear it, man, if it's a symbol that other linked racism. Look people, I have to agree with Daniel, because it is the same with the people here in the south, in Brazil. They are proud of the Farroupilha revolution that the guys wanted to separate from the country and they have and they have and man, in the end it is the same thing. We know that there is also a lot of racism there, you know? It is a fucking racist state, so
16:09 I agree with Daniel, suddenly the guy is proud to live there in his state, fine, but from the moment his pride is hurting minorities. They can also live there in the same state as you, so, man, you are being a jerk, even if you are there from your state and there are other ways to show your pride than using the fucking Confederate Flag, sorry, there must be some other way. So I, I tend to agree on that point, when you have the state flag, you have a city flag, you have a lot of stuff, it's just that this is, this is a very recent thing, man, so, like, you have a linear skinner,
16:39 that used to wear that Flag in one everywhere, all these bands, but man, I'll give an example of that too because it's one of the reasons that so going back to Pantera, I stopped listening because of that, because I won't. Promote, I'm not going to give money to anyone of them in relation to that. I don't promote the band ever again, though new. I have three bands made by the same son of a bitch. That I find amazing I don't listen to, but you. You talked about the confederate amarillo texas, one of the most famous stories of punk, and there brian deneck who was killed rum
17:09 Bunch of guys with little confederate flags. Actually, you want to be linked to that, man, like the crazy guy was killed at the age of 19 because he was a punk in a place that was mostly Catholic and Christian and proud to be redneck urro and the and the affection went free, including. I don't want to. I don't want to be linked to that, no. Neither do I, because nobody wants it? Exactly, I'm just giving you 11, another way to look at the other side of the coin. Man, what a face that carries
17:40 his culture. It's hard for you to come to a guy from Texas or wherever and say "Bro, this flag represents racism. If the guy is not, it is complicated, right? That's it, it's bad for us, you don't go, the United States is racist and then goes against the historical monuments, right? That people want to tear down, that's a lot of things, you know? For example, here people wanted to tear down the monument of the standard. Why? Why not? Because it reminded us of a dark period, but wanting it or not, it was a period that makes us feel like we were in a dark period.
18:10 part of the story and bring him down. No, no, I don't know if this is going to bring any return and I don't even know what impact this would have, you know? Yes, I'm not going to bring up this discussion because I think we get too far away from the music, we get too far away from the music, but Camila, send it over, I'm just going to bring it up real quick, I think we have to tear it down just like they tried to tear down the Borba gato, because if you are erecting a monument to the son of a bitch, you have to tear it down, that was it. No, we won't let them, we won't send them as a matter of course. We bet that we have the sodium in
18:40 future, that alone is not even less correct. At least that they should fall or not. You get more than 50 ml, that's good, but for now we've only talked about people. Light, is there anything worse? I wouldn't say that, would you, man? No, not since we talked to him. It has already begun. Pedophilia, racism, beating women, nothing that is true and I brought a band that is the former law that I liked. I like it a lot. But the vocalist, my God, he lost his hand, the guy was arrested for attempted murder of
19:10 his own wife, right, man? The guy set the guy up, made a whole and that not to mention that who doesn't know Brazilian is a Christian band, right? Which makes things still going to try? Seriously, you can't light one candle for God and one for the devil. It's the oil, almost law. Then he's basically a Christian band, man, he's going through his theme, and then the guy sends a Christian metalcore instance, man, but that's also what another great back was for. But that's what I tell you, isn't it? I never idolize anyone of those kinds of people.
19:40 What always remains is that question, look, today I am catching myself listening to this, right? Do I listen, do I not listen? How is this going to impact? Will I be giving royalties to these guys, how is it? I think it is very interesting that these bands take immediate action when people do something, like CPM 22, right? With Japim the guys put the guy out, right? So you are showing that the band also has a position. Just like the company, when it finds out that someone did something wrong too, exactly. Then it punishes like
20:10 I think that's important. That's it, that's agreeing, that's it. We have to have the band's songs. Just a moment, a posture or not of supporting and saying no, the guy hit one, that is it, the guy killed one, that is it, or of saying no, we don't agree, the guy just left the band at the moment it happened, that is the other thing too, playing the same role of Devil's Advocate is that there are a lot of people who say one thing, this accused, another thing to be condemned and there are people who say this, when he is not condemned we, we are with the guy because nobody is guilty of forgetting. That is what you prove he is, isn't it? So, in other words, there are people
20:40 who is still going this way. Then I don't know. Each one has his own way of saying it, because the guy really wants to hear three more months in the band, right? So, it is just to see which one it is, imagine if we were to overcome this Dickinson, imagine if Bruce Dickinson were to say, no, wait a minute, he has not been convicted yet, wait that you will go to the last instance, right? What about that tape of nergal that he posted a t-shirt with the words fuck antifa on it? What about that? No, but it's just that I don't want death, so for me, I don't. And so, I
21:10 I think it's cool. A genius like that, musically speaking, right? I never stopped to talk to him, but that's it, a rain, a sadness, you know, man, that's it, that's what I, I always insist on, you know? The only thing that comforts me. Man, yeah. The work is there and it is connected, the work is there, I can not do much about it, man. I can't do much about it, man. I can't do anything about it, I can't do anything about it, I can't do anything about it, I can't do anything about it,
21:41 but it doesn't bother me nego that like, I'm just going to pull for another black side that declares itself conservative or back in Trump? That doesn't bother me zero I don't agree, but I think everyone votes for whoever they want to excuse a way forward the this. Isn't that super conservative? I had pointed out here is Johnny ramone, guitarist of the Ramones who was ultra-conservative. I think that a person's political position, people are entitled to theirs, to have their political position, because there in Brazil this is also discussed a lot,
22:11 right? The guy voted for Bolsonaro. Let him come back, patience, now he's here suffering with the people who didn't vote. That's good, but I get caught up in it. This thing of politics doesn't bother me much, being very honest, it's not what makes me more confused is when the guy is really a criminal. Yes, he is a criminal, and that's fucked up. This just shows me one more thing. Seeing here we have been exposing these artists, shows me that more and more I understand why power metal is the one that matters, because you don't see any power metal guys
22:41 being framed in this shit. Man, it's not because nobody is because they don't go to the news guys. Power metal, nobody standing up for themselves is not racism, the guys don't do this stuff. I'm not killing anybody, the guys are just in the forest, doing their dances with the elves, with the fairies, and that I had one defending his crime of 68 bronha. Nothing of, but their crime is to be. Is to be is to be retarded? No, but if it was, honey, no, but people, but I answered from Camila, like from nergal, nergal is? Even though it's not really black metal,
23:11 right? That opens the gate to a billion other black metal things. Black metal is one of my favorite styles, it's one of the hardest things to listen to without having to make that comparison, because really, man. 90% taking statistics out of my ass, let it be clear, I took 90% from the net institute of ta ass is 90% these black metal bands, mainly Norwegian, Scandinavian. They have some Nazi or racist tendency.
23:43 or some elderly welfare thing. That's not the only one I agree with, is that it's a church, as long as there's no one inside the church, but the rest is pretty heavy. The guy is murder, like so much that I didn't even bring a lot of black metal into this discussion because of that. Because it is 90%, you keep researching, does this band that is or is not Nazi, does it now have a whole movement? Which I forget the name of here in Brazil, but, for example, in what is ONSBM, which is now, it is Nelson Charles black
24:13 metal. Which is this totally Nazi movement. There were and there are labels, studios that make a point of saying, "You can only enter ours. It is our studio, if you don't go, but then you will have cases like the ones we have already talked about, like André likes, for example, the moose. Vocalist of the former, lived as a band that is extremely Nazi. He didn't know. They pronounced themselves or not, nobody has proof, but so what? He is pro, he is against, but not against. Exactly
24:43 Yeah, but then I heard that metal is the worst style of all. Stop this polemic, because, man, you spend 3 days researching that you can't know, but that's what is assumed to be wrong. At first after this research, because not only if the guy just listens and doesn't research, he can't be either. He is ignorance, he is a blessing, right man? No, maybe it is not everything, like everything else in life, if you don't know what is going on, because I didn't even know about the alceste because I just listen, you know? You will find out more and more in a little while on Spotify. It will have Father Fábio de Melo,
25:13 bikini cavadão EE. It's not right without Junior, because one I think, Bro, but that's it. This is the good and bad of your family and Patati Patatá will stay with your family. At least now these guys won't stay hidden. But there is a downside, they don't stay hidden either. For those who are pro-choice to do shit, that's right, because there is almost no place like this, right? Because you have the kind of empathy you have from the guys who think it's right and you have OA shit that. Which is going to
25:43 There are lots of people talking about it, like the Burzum Mayhem story, and then you go down the black metal line, you can't even discuss it, it's not a bottomless pit, right? I can't. Black metal, you can't. If he can, can you make an episode only about shit that black metal people have done in history, can you listen to black metal? What is left for you to listen to, since you haven't heard anything that has an association, man, there is a record company that I have been listening to a lot, which is Grammy Stone records, which É Ela has this cold É Ela has this point of what kind of guys we are going to research, you don't enter your own it has.
26:14 Letters or some such background? But it is difficult. It comes back and forth, man. The thing about the job I told you about, Fausto from Emperrou went there and beat up a gay guy, killed him. Then you have the varga, you have to, man, I can't do it, I can't do it. Black metal gets harder and harder, I always try to do some research. But since I listen to it from strange countries like Russia, it is difficult, even more difficult to find out what happened. Black metal that saves is only the Black Race, right? Raça Negra's shirt was that best black metal band
26:44 that exists is the softness. It doesn't save itself anymore, no, it doesn't get old, it keeps creating, no, man, that's how it is, I'm going, I'm always going to hit that, I had even pointed out that when I hear a song, watch a movie, read a book, I can't even think about the face of the guy that created it. Which is the author's or the experience gets me on such a level that I don't care who created it, what is the story of the guy who created it, you know? And from here
27:14 Is it going to be like that going forward? So, like, I try to get attached to what that work is. It passes to me, transmits to me, you know? Is that it? É? And so I think it's just interesting that you bring this up, André. Because I put Jaque Rowling here because I am crazy about Harry Potter. She made some trans-phobic comments quite recently, and then, man, you're there following for a decade basically a story that talks about inclusion and about the.
27:45 It's not the weird ones. Showing in your space, showing exactly, it has to be space is suddenly. The woman comes and talks about people bleeding has a name and name is women and what the fuck and you know a lot of people have put that point as very interesting. It's Harry Potter has become much bigger than AGK. Rowling, a lot. So, so this, beauty, she created, she created, but this is not hers anymore, it doesn't belong to her, it doesn't belong to her anymore. So, even though beauty
28:15 it sucks, knowing that every time we buy a book, we have to watch the movie again, right? If we don't have the DVD at home, watching a streaming or if we go to the park, it's going to cost more money. The good that the work has brought is greater than the harm it is doing here. And that is the question of holding her responsible for what she is doing. But knowing that the work is much greater. So, this question of separating, I think it is very important, the foundation that it is, it has, it is, it is relative, right? That
28:45 business, because what I see, if the band and its lyrics didn't transmit what the person ended up committing, I don't see why imagine that a band talked to celeida was Christian in the lyrics, right? Then the guy did that which is totally Christian. That he preached more, for example, is our everyday schizophrenia today, isn't it? I said, do it, do it, right? But I have another question to continue, to make even more polemic, people, what is it like, right? We talked about, I want to be canceled, about the people who commit crimes
29:15 are in the bands. I would like to know if we are also doing this part of, sometimes separating or not we still have. It is still not unanimous neither for you, nor for, no. I would like to know what about the people that have already committed then go into the music world, the world is, will we accept them, will these people not accept them, right? In other words, it is that reinsertion into society of an ex, of a guy who has also committed a crime. But we know, admittedly, that he committed it, and now he is a renowned singer, a good singer. And then it depends on this person not paying for the crime that he committed.
29:46 Has she paid for the crime she committed? Even if it is something heinous, if she was punished, went to jail, paid the way she had to pay. We may not think it is exactly fair, but according to the law, the law of society. She paid for that crime, fine, but that also goes for the opposite of those who did it. We can go back, so listening to their music would be more or less like this. Yeah, it depends, it can be complex, it is because it is complex, you know? When you invert, when you invert the game,
30:16 do the reverse, then go back to that same starting point, it gets even more ours, I'm here like Nazaré Tedesco, do this confrontation with 10 so now take one of these 2. But I don't get it, but what are you saying? Like, a guy that, like, Suzane Richthofen starts singing and singing her ass off, right? Because let's suppose now that Uncle Let's Go is the chambres, that is Dudu Asilei. Then he was arrested and convicted, got out, and now he's back in the leida, he's building and stuff and let's go so he can make another band. Not that he did, he did, he did that one. That's one case, that's one favor of reduction is
30:46 So, imagine now that Phil Anselmo was there by himself, by his own words, by some chance he is sentenced, comes back, listen to Pantera after he serves, is that it too? So that's why I think it's hard, it's hard, that's why I say, it's hard. If you had this way of weighing things, it is very complex, man, it is very personal, complex, but it is, I think they are two different things, right? We already know that the content of Pantera's own lyrics, Pantera's history, has this supremacist asshole issue, it's there, holy,
31:16 there is cowboy from Hell, they have enough stuff exactly, so there is beauty, Anselmo wire is paying for his sins, now I can go back to listening to Pantera. It's still a supremacist band, et cetera, man, it's there, another thing is a person who fucked up, paid for his crimes that suddenly is developing a work that doesn't endorse that crime that he committed. So I think that, in fact, there are two different scenarios, the same thing as, I don't know, Anselmo goes to jail, spends 1012 years there, gets fucked, and when he comes back he has a different posture, he comes from a different
31:46 type of music, develops a different type of work, that's also another situation. For example, Steven Tyler, man, he is 27 years old, he was married to a 16 year old girl. He forced the girl, good afternoon. The son of a bitch, only there he is from his own biography, he put that he regrets it, that. Fucking wrong. Nowadays he has. An NGO that guy helps children who have suffered sexual abuse. Raising funds, et cetera, he was a son of a bitch, he did
32:16 Shit, fez is trying to make amends somehow, okay? It's defensible, isn't it? But you are trying to do something, you understand? I understand. That is, the person is not doing anything. The fucked up thing is in cases like, for example, John Lennon himself, who died, Michael Jackson, who died and didn't even have time to retract his statement, he doesn't even have time, sometimes to be used for what and there it is, it is in this limbo. And have you used those? But as part of your life, you are already part of your environment. When you have grown up with that and then you see like, you can
32:46 roll deception clear, it is normal, can roll I and another that I think is difficult street. Because they belong to Who's Who uses it. But I think there is one thing that is even more difficult, whether I like it or not, however much I know with Pantera and with ampla, I made a very aggressive decision of no, I won't listen anymore. Regardless of whether the guy gets better or not, fuck it. Yeah, but there are bands that every guy is hard to take on, you know, like Chuck Berry, the guy was caught in the act
33:17 with a child video because he filmed children in the ladies' room of his restaurant. He is one of the legends of rock music. Do you have Jorge home from Windows? Oneide, who has already beaten women, you have this guy's then? Megadeth too, Ozzy himself, who we idolize so much that we speak well of him in every episode, like. The crazy guy like tried to kill Sharon, you know the rum, and I didn't stop listening to it. Black Sabbath, I didn't stop listening to tche BR, I didn't stop listening to crimson Neide. That is very difficult. So what is the exact line? For me it is
33:47 does it fulfill ceiling or not? It's like mano feeling the feeling of not hearing no, because sometimes you don't. I think that the line also, the posture, the posture that you have, because, for example, Oshio had a lot of justifications that he was high on drugs, which I think is one of the most lame excuses. If it was anybody else, I would say, I was on drugs. I don't think it was a justification, but 11 is the drug himself, people. He ripped the head off a bat thinking it was rubber. So, exactly. So Ozzy can pass one? Parola,
34:17 Chuck Berry can't do it, but I like your talking, passing a rag of like, we know we're wrong. We know, exactly, exactly, important and like, and I and man, I am sorry if any of you say that you don't listen. Black Sabbath, you are hypocrites, I know that everybody here, that's all, man, everybody is talking good man, everything we said that either you don't or everything we said here the other, but in black metal I don't like black metal, it is. But it is also because you are afraid of the devil. How can I stop you, you pain in the ass?
34:47 I am a fanatic, a fanatic for Stanley Kubrick's work. Man, I'm already jealous of him, huh? I grew up and go to college to consume, how am I going to stop seeing orange, old mechanics, I have a tattoo of the Enlightened One, so if you try, then it's from the work of a guy who is a fucking bastard, I know what the problem is, it's very difficult for you. To find someone who is not 100% true to that stance like people, the same thing. Tarantino also who will
35:17 stop watching Tarantino's work? No, right, man? There was more, we can talk Tarantino, Polanski quiet Kubrick the Hemingway, charging a white said bloody rape, the mine, the mine command the scene. No, it is not moment à vel EE. For me, the best movie of my life is the guy who is a part of it. When I, the best man, then, like the guy, me. I stopped punishing myself for a while, I got into this dilemma. It's a fucking dilemma
35:48 Because it's moral, it's ethical, it involves a lot of shit that messes with your values, right? As a person, of course, because if you're a person with a minimum of common sense, you try to talk, but it's not empathy, right? I think the McCarthy people told me once, somebody said already, right? If you don't want to be disappointed, you don't know your idols, right? But, like, I don't idol, my idol is only one, it's my father, what I know, I trust him, the rest of my brother I use the work and that does me good,
36:18 I separate, I don't give a damn about his personal life and I will criticize if I have to, but now I manage to separate as much as possible, including, that we are, I also heard this other phrase? I don't know who said it, but it is that, isn't it? The idols that you see, that have done shit, that are, are notable, that's it. Those were notable, but there are 50 others that you don't even know about. You go through Santos, he is there with that, that face of an angel of candor, but in reality he is an angel of death, you know, because he just is not, he just doesn't let go.
36:48 In the media, he's always there, smiling and waving, right? Kind of like Madagascar, you know, not me very much, not me very much. Again, leaving the music, because there is no way, right? We are talking about art, very cool, but there was an example, I can't remember which was the stand up guy I was watching and he is a polemic guy. And he gave an example that is very viable, which is like this, man, everybody says he is polemic, because he speaks bad words, because he talks about heavy topics, boom, and he said a lot of people criticize me, but as far as I know, I have never committed a crime.
37:18 nothing, while other people were going to see Bill Cosby who never cussed in his life and who raped 60 women. And then, like, some things are just complicated and beautiful. I am not defending this guy, so much that I can't remember which of the million controversial comedians it is. I know it's not David hat. Because it was a white guy, but I don't remember which white guy. And man, like, so far, nobody knows if he ever did it, but what if at some point he comes out and says, then you're already pro
37:48 3 Mines too, so you need to know. Brothers, you're going to have a hard time, what are you going to look for? What is the crime that the guy who makes you do the work he did is good for you? I don't look for it, but if the business gets too shameless, I try to avoid it. Of course, I think I have to avoid it. You’re like black metal, if I find out it’s a Nazi black metal band, I won’t give a dime of Spotify to their motherfuckers. Now 11 is 11, it gets complicated. Hit
38:18 in the woman. Everything in this life is too much. It's very complicated, it's relative to us. In fact, we are more victims than anything else, because the guys do it, we are just getting fucked. No old crime and we are not committing it is also not a crime if you consume the work that they are. They are people who commit crimes, they are countries that sometimes you like, I like the United States, if you look at the foreign policy of the United States, the other countries are tremendous sons of bitches, those who live abroad, you know, they just create wars, they destroy the streetcars, they pass the guys, it's worse than grasshoppers, they don't have the slightest
38:48 of compassion. They don't destroy everything, man, the English are manners. Go see what the English do outside of England, when they come here, they destroy everything. Marina is very complicated. So, people, even Japan, right? Whose allies are the Olinda people? In the second war, we Brazilians didn't destroy them outside, we destroyed them inside, it's, our power of self-destruction is fantastic, it's fantastic, so, if we look for it, man, everything has it, so, I'll leave my words here, I separate
39:18 the artist's work. I gave Michel because if not, I will go crazy. And it's not mine, because it works by judging others. And now, when it gets me out of empathy, it's really man, I won't do certain things. Yeah, it's a very personal question, just like that, even Pantera I wouldn't keep it cool. But if you ask me, how many do you listen to? Pantera, man, it's been a long time since I listened to it, so, like this, it's like, imagine if it was Edgar, I don't know, a fantasy to be very sad, right man? I would cry, but I started, I would keep listening to less people
39:49 I know how to do it like cozy does. I know, but actually I was just going to have the face of the record. It's not easy, well slept, well slept, and I saw it like that, right? But, man, it's just me, that's it, man. Each one has to do his or her own screening. I don't think it is appropriate for us here to try to talk about, I don't, I, I, I separate, I don't separate. I think that each one of you listening in your innermost being, you know that we are imperfect, we have our own problems and we do things that when people don't come, look, only Jesus knows
40:19 and that what you believe then. Man, before we start pointing out all this shit, we have to remember that we can produce it too. So, yes, do, I am wise words, that. Look, well man, once in a lifetime, it is not apart from us, poor Michel, lately he has been so coherent, let the boy go, invest Dinho, people, I think that in the end, I think that the great message that is left here is like, the guy is when consuming art, in general, don't consume blindly, be critical,
40:49 I think that developing a critical thinking is interesting, that's what. It makes you see the good things and also the bad things, and then, okay, you are consuming the work of someone that maybe you shouldn't have consumed, but if that leads you to build a critical thinking that can even help society in general, well, then maybe it wasn't so bad that you consumed that. I think that if you allow yourself to build critical thinking, I think that is the main point, not to stand there with your little goat looking in one direction only.
41:20 André Sarmento, man, me. Me is this. I am one, it's something that I have worked on a lot and I came to this conclusion as well. I can separate well, I think that the artist's work is always greater than the author's work, isn't it? And many times it ends up inspiring. As the author of Harry Potter, isn't it also a book that when I was a kid, there, man, it's worth it to my son the other day, you know? It's surreal to think about it, but it's a much greater work
41:51 than she does. Any crap she makes. And Kubrick, Marlon Brando, all of them, all of them, me, I'll consume whenever it's good for me, it's not EE, knowing with this critical eye, Camila said, because you can't idolize people you've never talked to for 5 minutes, man, this is surreal, perfect and even worse, idolize one. Politician but like us, and yes. So we talk. Sure, that's right, Danny boy, I am. I was waiting, but I. I'm not, but I'm not going to be controversial, because I agree, I think our this
42:21 It is not surprising, my God, it is one, it is one, it touched, it touched the heart for the first time too, right? But I think that for me it is that thing, I am not a hypocrite to say that I research everyone because I listen to, I don't know, in the past I listened to 80000 hours of music on Spotify. If I research everything, I listen to music for 12 hours of my life, right? I don't judge you as a music lover. If I research everything, I am fucked, you won't hear anything, but when it is, for example, an Igor from life, one of these bands that I promote all week, that I talk about all the time,
42:52 I still do my research through, like, I will keep promoting these motherfuckers or not, every month you go there, let's go, Igor, let's go, let's not see, let's look here the plug thing pulls, the sweater is very corner very big, but every week right, to do it you end up doing some research. I follow the band not only because I do more research, I follow them. Igor follows the band on Instagram. Yeah, I read news about them. I see when there's a new show, so I'll end up knowing about it. This goes for Slipknot, it goes for thousands of other bands. But I think that also
43:22 There is this thing that I am not a hypocrite to say that it is selective. It is not that at the moment I say, half ONS is a racist? I won't listen anymore, but Ozzy tried to kill his wife, it's okay. So, like, and there it is and it's hard, it's what I said, I have a tattoo of Kubrick, one of my favorite painters the bum guy who killed a guy and ran away, died on the run. The painter doesn't even get into this merit. A painter doesn't enter any museum anymore. End, a painter fucked Picasso, Caravaggio, Michelangelo, you can keep listing them, but
43:52 I think it is like this, I agree and there is another factor that we have to take into consideration, that everybody here in this podcast is white. Everyone here is from the privileged majority, yes, and sometimes we don't feel the pain that other people feel. I have seen that a lot in the day to day fucking. There is one band that, to me, doesn't offend, because I am a white, straight guy. It offends another person who is close to me, who would trance, who is a woman who is a black guy. E
44:22 I have heard what they have said about it, and maybe it weighs, then yes, it is worth researching and saying, damn, is it going to get into my filter or not? Because that's what I said in one. That is why I gave an example in the beginning, if I see Camila getting beaten by Dinho from Capital Inicial, I would never give money to Capital Inicial, which would never happen because I never gave money. But money is never an example. You can never beat Camila, so that's it, it's accurate, but it's an example. I would like to try to find a Brazilian band, which is more generic, right? That big one, the pain that hurts the other,
44:52 but it doesn't hurt me, is it that relevant, right? Exactly, then the perfect thing to do is to, you know, put one behind us and there was, you know, like. You are, you can, I think that everyone has the right to continue listening, you know? What if I want to continue listening to the day after he beat Camila? It's my right, I wouldn't listen. But everybody has to at least reflect, man, like, you have the right to choose if you have a critical sense. Like, think again if it makes sense that's the first point. That's a first
45:22 point. You don't fucking idolize a person you never spoke old. That to me is accurate, it doesn't make much sense. I remember how did you say it? Because sometimes the person at the professional level, both professional and personal, right? Sometimes the person in the professional is one thing, friends and they didn't do everything, you didn't know, right? You don't know, man, but this work is with the guy who is spectacular at work, but when he gets home, he is a, he is a tazmania, right man? I'm just going to give you an example, we'll finish this one, but you gave me an example of a guy, of a, of a... A comedian
45:53 that was Márcio smell, he was the guy that most raised the weak flag, exactly the guy that most raised the flag, not against everything, man, in favor of feminism, in favor of the, against racism, in favor is the guy. How is it that there are hypocritical people, right man? So take it off. The world is very crazy, so, man, it is very hard to know who is for real. Who doesn't enter, doesn't own the work. The work is for real, the work is there. Whoever said that the real one knows who is a lie, maybe he didn't know so much. Here's for your reflection
46:23 That way we don't know anything, so the question remains, who, who? Who is real does and does not talk, right, man? Who talks too much, one distrusts, always use your critical sense, remember, all people evolve, what you were today we are today in this podcast will not be tomorrow because we are beings under construction and improvement, continuous evolution. That's it, my dears, that is the message. Always try to improve yourselves, because life depends on it. Make your criteria, make your Milo pre not today own there today, 3, our
46:53 planetary action we are people, the cortella today is impressive that you are great enough, right? I think that's it, it's over. The episode is separated, move our philosopher. Our philosopher in the future, let's say I started on the metal podcast, I will be proud. Do you understand these? I think that's enough, right? Listening to a Raimundo, you have had enough. Let me speak here, of course. There were those who
47:24 here you go? Lots. I could finish, couldn't I? The Raimundos episode, dammit.
